Columbia Kermit/kermit.zip/newsgroups/misc.20000114-20000217/[e-mail] _Sat Jan 29 18:28:47 2000.msg

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:01:57 GMT
Organization: Sympatico
To: [e-mail]

Hi Charles,

About "MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of January 26:

CA> I've been watching `the team' as they re-post old files trying
CA> desperately to push all their ill-chosen comments into archival
CA> storage on `dejanews'.

Yeah, i had started notice...  If i were the "team", i wouldn't be too
proud of the way they handled things myself!  The gibberish stuff which
gets poured in all the sudden (and which constitutes a big share of the
~NG~'s late content) is no surprize - it's only coherent with the rest:
what you have here smells like control freaks who have managed to gather
that much:  control.  Well, maybe so but they haven't earned my respect.

The team got special permissions from Columbia?  So it seems!...  :-7  I
suspect that Columbia, as a sponsoring institution, isn't as generous as
it used to be;  hence, those repeated concerns we seen about money.  %-7
They might not care about any provocation being perpetrated by the team.

CA> If I was doing this from work as they are and being paid while this
CA> nonsense was going on...  I don't think Joe Doupnik realizes that
CA> the killing of MSKermit is necessary to sell copies of K95.

I don't know, maybe he does!...  What i do know is that he wanted me to
believe that nothing is wrong on his side and NOW YOU TOO YOU DON'T MAKE
IT THRU:  i've seen your reaction to my post of Jan. 25 about me reading
Joe only from spasmodic quoted fragments (hence, my calling to my ~ISP~
about it).  I can read you from Columbia's ~NG~ archive but not from the
Sympatico news server:  i'm not buillible enough to believe that's only
pure coincidence!  Somebody must be messing with THE PROPAGATION of the
messages all right!...  8-o  All i see is a number of postings from Mark
Sapiro, Frank da Cruz, Mike Freeman, David Stow, Nick Boyce, and to my
surprize (a rather good surprize):  Dan Lanciani, author of the ~ODIPkt~
utility!  :)  Anyway.  About seventy messages and a week later, the last
post i see from you via Bell's server is this:

*           From:  [e-mail]
*           Date:  Fri, 21 Jan 2000  9h16 (GMT) (posted at 2h16 MST)
*        Subject:  Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities
*     Newsgroups:  comp.protocols.kermit.misc
*     Message-ID:  <EtVh4.14228$[e-mail]>
*     References:  <[e-mail]>
*          Lines:  28
*           Size:  1548 (bytes)
*           Xref:  news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20711

I went to `DejaNews' and the posts of January 27, from us both, made it.
It seems that you were right:  this is nothing productive...  Doupnik's
post of January 25 is there too...  nonetheless, i don't read from him
on my ~ISP~'s news server (as neither from you any longer)...  It seems
we are forced to address the team at priori and if the team doesn't like
our opinions then we can't reach to each other...  It wasn't appreciated
that my base of discussion was related to DOS, "legacy" PCs, `ZMoDem'...
RIGHT FROM MY OPENING.  I bet they don't praise your views neither, it's
*THEIR* choice but now it's clear they're not even willing to assume!...

They'll argue we weren't polite enough since their own ways elude them!

[...]

CA> MSKermit _also_ operates efficiently in the Windows environment and
CA> is free while K95 is not.  Seems fairly obvious that you can't give
CA> free working copies while trying to sell another?

Not mentionning that BBSes on `OS/2', etc. have nothing to do with it...
Ho!  And it reminds me of that stingy comment about BBS operators trying
to make a penny out of it...  Isn't it remote from reality or what?!  :(

CA> I originally thought he was in on this with `the team' but now I'm
CA> not so sure.  Joe seems quite fond of his MSK and I can't imagine
CA> under what circumstances he would allow it to wither and die.

Maybe he's just more tired of it than he can be found of it - 2 decades
is a very long time!  I wonder, would Jim Henson still agree on granting
the `MS-Kermit' team his permission of using a character's name from his
own creation, should he happen to learn how things have evolved lately?!
After all, Kermit was a rather nice Muppet/puppet, at the origin...  He
was a charming frog, not a pit-bull dog you'd see in Monsters!...  8-o

Frank Da Cruz sure will need to review his book;  that mention about the
"Kermit" word being a Celtic equivalent which means "free" has no place
in there, anymore...  nor that comment about this child of the sixties!

CA> When Joe is out of the picture MSKermit will probably be deleted
CA> from the Columbia servers and since Columbia has arranged to own it
CA> they can demand it's removal from the others.  In the end K95 will
CA> fail and damage the reputation of kermit in the process.

I won't be surprized a bit when it happens and i'm afraid the reputation
of kermit already has a few stains on it, as far as i'm concerned!  :-(

[...]

CA> I'm baayyccckkk!

Not everywhere...

MS> About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of January 1, 5, 7...  I
MS> introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user...  ...meaning:  - 8088
MS> 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~  - 640 Kb ~RAM~...  TO UPGRADE THE HARDWARE OR TO
MS> SWITCH TO PROTOCOLS LIKE ~FTP~/~HTTP~ *IS NOT* AN OPTION.
JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for the asking...
CA> You see Michel said this was not an option and was ignored.

More than just ignored, i'd say!  After some retrospective, you can see
that the `ZMoDem' mention obscured everything else, afterwards!...  8-7

CA> The folklore of free `486s is probably true if you work in academia
CA> where they get new equipment for free...  For the rest of us even
CA> scrap metal has a price tag.

Hummm...  They really liked the friendliness of the 60s, i guess...  8-o

Oh, but we already knew that those people did probably live in a perfect
world of their own!  I wouldn't be surprized if they even got a courtesy
Pentium *LapTop* to bring around, a few years ago!...  Don't forget they
do have to keep top-notch, specially in universities - and _you_ pay!...

I applause at programs which do "the more with the least" but that's me.

[...]

MS> I finally read your messages (not just short spasmodic quoted
MS> fragments) which you intended as a reply to my previous posts.
CA> Your choice of `spasmodic' lends that feeling of "just wanting to
CA> help" to your reply.

I'm not sure Joe really cares since he never came back at me after i
pointed him to a possible and major propagation flaw...  Indeed, he may
very well like to lose his time at typing "helpfull" posts which won't
reach the addresse...  Or to the least, not before the other guys have
messed things up a little bit with that poor addresse...  :-o  What i've
seen here just escapes my sense of rationality, quite frankly.

[...]

JRD> Stop accusing people.  Then please understand just a bit more how
JRD> News is propagated as storing and forwarding, merging and splitting
JRD> of streams of messages, some of which relays drop or repeat.  Hours
JRD> or days may pass...  It is not my end of things.  Zmodem isn't in
JRD> the works...  Nor will port 25 to be opened...  ...decision stands.
CA> That particular port was probably being used to feed back some of
CA> the attitude that was received here originally.  You locked it out
CA> in self-defense.  Refusing to allow the MSKermit terminal app to use
CA> external protocols (via the `int 14h' hook) is...  ...irrational...
CA> Personally, I don't care about port #25 but I can see why `the team'
CA> would fear it's use.

All the denies are about what the team wants, not what the user needs...
If ~IP~ port #25 hadn't been an exception, i just would have had a tiny
and convenient tool for managing my mail.  `NetMail v2.12', for example,
is one more application which requires some *disk-space* to do the same
thing `Kermit' can do for me.  What's more, `NetMail' is straightforward
(quite too straightforward for my taste!):  a `MS-Kermit' script allows
me to view the messages list with the sizes and then i can decide what i
want.  Moreover, i don't have to risk loosing anything;  a problem which
i heard happens to people using specific applications, like `NetMail'...

[...]

JRD> To decode your script problems I suggest first reducing...  ...the
JRD> speed problems you are concerned about...  ...your 8088 machine
JRD> runs out of cpu cycles and the floppy drive remains slow.
CA> Neither Michel nor I have said that MSKermit is slow on the 8088...
CA> ...we have both said the opposite.  ...the IP stack seems to
CA> function properly when others do not.  If external protocols could
CA> access this it would be a fall back for those BBS with poor or no...

You are only waisting your time, Charles!  The script he didn't read or
try, the concerns he got them all wrong (or pretended to)...  statement,
he keeps getting us wrong because his definition of "embellishment" just
doesn't leave space to include any external protocol in the picture...

Think of it:  two decades and still just *ONE* file transfer protocol in
the `MS-Kermit' emulation program - nothing else.  No `CISB+', `HSLink',
`SMoDem' or whatever...  nada!  The hole world is supposed to adapt and
not the opposite - since `Kermit' is near to "perfection"...  %-7

[...]

JRD> Lastly, we have pointed you to the source code more than once.
CA> I was directed to something like 4 or 5 different places and the
CA> code was not there.

Me neither.  I guess we must wait for `MS-Kermit' to exit it's present
(very long) "Beta" stage - or we may ask to join the "Beta" team, euh...

JRD> ...try netlab2.usu.edu, directory kermit.  Try netlab1.usu. edu...
CA> The first time I went to these the code was not there and access to
CA> the `mirror' directory was denied.

"Denial" is the magic word here.  IMHO!

JRD> I can't help more than that...
CA> ...not quite accurate.

See my comment, right above!!!  8-o

[...]

CA> With your years of working with the code it shouldn't take very long
CA> for you to determine if adding a `hook' for exernal protocols is
CA> feasible without major surgery.

Wake up!  You and me must know that this has been too many years already
and the professor happens to be quite tired of it.  That's all there is
to it!  P->  The only major surgery you may ever expect won't be done on
`MS-Kermit'!...  I'm sorry Charles but your only option is to go at some
other author like the one of `Anzio'.  Of course, commercial package$ as
`GLink for DOS' might be an option too, if only the cost could be made a
little bit more reasonable, especially for such a "legacy" thing...  8-7

Only, we can't ask `MS-Kermit' to be of help in the "legacy" PC world,
even if it already works fine (until you need `ZMoDem', that is!)...  :(

One other choice is to try to make the BBS SysOps install whatever we'd
like them to install...  which would be quite silly of us, i'm afraid!!!

At best, we may try to check for the `RLogIn' ~IP~ port (#513?)!...  If
it's an unused option that's just sitting there then we might have some
success asking SysOps to use it (`TextWin', etc. would do the rest)...

[...]

The team has a means to imperviate the propagation of your posts so that
they can't reach me via my regular ~ISP~;  the same must be true of me.

They sure wouldn't discuss the ~FOSSIL~ extension topic even if you told
them that you're going to manage with it all by yourself, alone...  not
even a theoretical topic related to THAT.  Your exposition is now being
limited - voluntarily, i.e. you're not getting thru too well...  %-(  I
submit to you that only a fraction of this ~NG~'s readers are reading us
as of now...

Let's face it, that's how it ends up after only a couple postings done
over less than a month!  No specifics here, they just prefer politics if
anything else would lead to "ZMoDem", a *TABOO* word they despise most.

:-7

[...]

I don't think i'll be back unless there's a major gear toward a change.

Bye!  See you around, elsewhere.

Best salutations,  :-)

Michel Samson